The following message, from the chairman of the Pastoral Committee, Bruce Dean, was sent on Thursday (14th Nov) to the National Council of UCG - Australia, & a copy was also forwarded to the Chairman of the Council of Elders of UCG - An International Association - Mr Bob Dick.
From: BRUCE DEAN
To:
Don Goodger
Roy Hickford
Rod King
Graemme J. Marshall
Rod McQueen
Ruth Root
Orest Solyma
Barry Williams
Reg Wright
Ernie Hames
Robert Orchard
cc: Bob Dick
Subject: Announcement
this Sabbath
-------------------------------
Message Contents --------------------------
Greetings,
As was decided at the Pastoral Committee meeting could you please announce
the following this Sabbath in all churches.
Thanks,
Bruce
"There was a Pastoral Committee meeting on Friday afternoon before the National Council meetings last weekend. One of the agenda items under discussion was perceived doctrinal differences. Mr Orest Solyma was asked to clarify to the committee his beliefs on such doctrines as the Nature of Jesus Christ, tithing, modern Israel and predestination. An open and cordial discussion took place and Mr Solyma agreed it would be beneficial to publicly clarify these areas of concern with the Melbourne West congregation. To ensure that no misunderstandings occur in relation to this matter a tape of this meeting will be made available to members of the Pastoral Committee. It might be good for all of us to refer to the basic outline of United Church of God's beliefs which are stated in the constitution. We are pleased that we do have a process whereby the concerns of members can be addressed."
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Why is this announcement
necessary?
The volume of rumour
and gossip about me personally, about what I teach, about what I
supposedly believe & don't believe, is large, very distressing to some
people in the major church areas in this country: Brisbane & the Gold
Coast, Sydney, & Melbourne churches.
The rumours that have been reported back to me -- which are far worse than I had imagined & more widespread among the churches than I realised -- range from absurd inventions, false inferences, misunderstandings, to misperceptions of what I have said or am supposedly to have said or thought. May I ask that no-one enquire about the rumours if they have not heard them. Many have not heard the rumours and gossip. However, the harm already done, the hurt feelings & disaffections already present need forgiveness and healing. This process begins with me!
It is my hope & it is my desire that the ensuing sermon will start these processes of healing and very needful reconciliation. This process also needs cooperation with Scripture such as Matt 18:15-17. On Thursday night I was listening to a tape "Why Prophecy? by Jim Franks, who asked the question in regard to the greatest problem the Council of Elders perceives in the church today -- relationships among all of us: Why do we experience, and why have we experienced so little of the practical application of Matt 18? All of us who have been indiscrete, who have spoken unwisely, who have reported a matter without knowing the truth of the matter, should seek to undo the damage. Bitter & sweet waters cannot come from the same source (Jas 3:11). Jesus Christ is the fountain of living waters (Jer 2:13) so it is evident that none of us -- me included, in faith towards God, should speak from our own resources, which the Pharisees & Sadducees did (Jn 8:44). Prov 15:4 informs me that "a healing tongue is a tree of life". The book of Proverbs is full of wonderful instruction about speech. And I want to follow those instructions.
I shall answer as best as I can in the available time questions pertaining to my supposed beliefs about predestination, the nature of God, the nature of the Son of God, U.S. & B.C. in Prophecy, & tithing.
During 1964 &
65 I constantly listened to Mr Armstrong's radio broadcasts. Sometimes
it was up to 4 times a night because the programmes were aired on stations
in Brisbane, Ipswich, Warwick, & Grafton. Here I was, aged 20-21,
enthused and diligent in listening, checking, considering, studying, praying
for insight, asking God for help of every kind including the power to overcome.
It was through the work that Mr HWA was doing that I was called. How can
I put a price on the value of the Work of God? I was brought to belief,
faith, repentance! As a result of God's gracious calling & of the love
& faithful committment of so many I too devoted myself to love God
and His Word! Those who know me from those early days in Brisbane surely
know I was striving to be living evidence of the Way of life freely given
to us. At my baptism, I promised within my heart, that if it was God's
Will I should die for the Faith, then I would accept His Will. All
of those characteristics are very much an internalised part of me to this
day.
The Question of
Predestination
What "Predestination"
is NOT
Very few understand
what "predestination is. First, consider, what it is not. There is no teaching
in the Bible that says the decision you are to make -- your final fate
of becoming either saved or LOST, is already pre-determined, and that you
are DESTINED finally to arrive at that fate!
[I fully agree with
this statement! I do not believe in fatalism or determinism! I am absolutely
assured, philosophically & logically also, that God, who cannot lie,
who is perfect, who is completely fair and gracious, gives each person
free moral agency & free choice. That is the Biblical teaching from
the Garden of Eden and onwards. I have never believed otherwise despite
what some might think.]
Absolutely NO TEXT
anywhere in the Bible says anyone is predestinated to be LOST!
But doesn't the Bible
say anything about predestination? Certainly. But it does not say what
people seem to think! People seem to think it says we are predestinated
to be either saved or lost. Some to be saved -- others to be lost.
[Mr HWA does not
address the problem of Judas & such as he being condemned before their
birth (see Ps 41:9; 55:12-15,20-21; 69:22-28; 109:6-20; & consider
the foreknown condemnation of the false prophet). God's foreknowing something
must not be confused with predetermining, or predestinating to destruction.
I do not believe that some are predetermined, or predestined to damnation!
That is a dogma of Calvinism and Lutheranism!].
Let us read the only
texts in the Bible speaking about "predestination." And see if you
can find anything in any of them about anyone being predestined to be LOST.
The difficulty is that people have assumed and taken for granted what is
not true.
[Judas, despite all
of Jesus' appeals, freely chose the path of betrayal. God foreknew that
he would, of his own free will, choose this path! Now this comment may
be viewed as my opinion, but it does not contradict what Mr HWA says in
his booklet! Perhaps someone hearing this kind of "opinion" has falsely
inferred that I believe in determinism and have somehow removed free choice.]
There are just FOUR
places where the word "predestinated" occurs in the Authorized version.
Romans 8:28-30:
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love
God, to them who are called according to His purpose. For whom He did foreknow,
He did also PREDESTINATE to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He did
PREDESTINATE them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified:
and whom He justified, them He also glorified."
Ephesians 1:4-5,11-12:
"According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the
world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in Love: having
PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the good pleasure of His will ... in whom also we have obtained
an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of Him who
worketh all things after the counsel of His own will: that we should be
to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ."
Notice, none of the
places in the Bible where predestination is mentioned says anything about
anyone being predestined to be LOST -- predestinated to reject Christ.
No one is predestinated to make a certain decision -- to accept or reject
Christ -- to be saved or lost. But some have been predestinated to be called
to salvation, NOW!
WHEN We Were Called
Of those called NOW,
in this age, notice WHEN we were called!
II Timothy 1:9:
"God, who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according
to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given
us in Christ Jesus before the world began."
[Please notice that
the apostle Paul tells us in Titus 1:2 that God promised eternal life to
His elect before time began. Does this mean that God had the entire Plan
of Salvation in mind before time began -- before the universe was created?
Why do people not want to discuss this? What are its implications?]
And, as in Ephesians
1, quoted above, notice carefully what it SAYS:
God chose us in Him,
when? "Before the foundation of the world!"
"Having PREDESTINATED
US" -- what for? To be LOST? No,
"Being PREDESTINATED
according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel
of His own will."
Notice carefully,
now!
"Being PREDESTINATED
... that we should be to the praise of His glory, who FIRST trusted in
Christ!"
And now do you begin
to see the glorious truth -- that predestination has nothing to do with
your making a decision or your fate -- it has only to do with the TIME
of your calling -- whether you are called NOW, in this age, or later!
Notice it in the
passage in Romans 8:28-30:
God does not decide
for you, in advance, whether you shall be saved or lost. He DID decide
far in advance which ones He would call in this FIRST calling, to be a
priest or a king in His kingdom -- to have part in the saving of OTHERS!
I have said things
in public and private that I presently believe glorify the incomprehensible
awesomeness of the power of God. And I have said things that do not glorify
the Almighty God! I ask for forgiveness whenever I recognize that!
Though the contemplation
of the glory of God is awesomely vast, my sense of logic, finds it satisfying!
For example, it is sensible and logical to me to think of God as being
without beginning and without end. Any other consideration to me is illogical
& absurd. It is logical to me to fully accept that:
God knows all things
(1Jn 3:20);
I find these Scriptures
very beautiful, readily acceptable, and most awesome. Does this mean that
I know how God understands all things, knows all things, and has infinite
foreknowledge? No! I readily admit I do not have answers for that question.
But it makes sense to me that the God who is Almighty is in fact almighty!
God is not less than almighty! God cannot be less than almighty!
Prophecy is the most
clearly profound proof of the foreknowledge of God the Almighty. How overwhelming
is the thought that begins to consider the implications in the fact that
the Lamb of God was chosen before the creation of the universe as 1Pet
1:19-20 tells us.
God the Almighty,
El Shaddai or Shaddai, is used 48 times in the OT. The LXX uses the
Gk pantokrator, all-powerful; while the Latin uses omnipotens -- hence
we get the notion that God is omnipotent. God cannot be less than omnipotent.
God cannot, likewise, be less than omniscient, i.e., He knows everything!
Where I might be thought of as influenced by the theology or metaphysics
of those who speculate about the nature of God, the theologians of the
world, I must say that I disagree vehemently on almost all they say about
the nature of God. The God I know, described in the Scriptures, is not
the God theologians speak of.
Ps 33:11 says:
The counsel of the LORD stands forever, the plans of His heart to all
generations.
Paul in Rom 11:33-36
says: Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of
God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
For who has known the mind of the LORD? Who has become His counsellor?
Or who has first given to Him and it shall be repaid to him? For of Him
and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
There is no searching
of His understanding (Isa 40:28; see also vv. 13-18; 42:9; 44:7; 45:21;
66:18).
These thoughts
are what influence my considerations about the nature of God!
So what are my
thoughts about the Nature of God?
Some rumours passed
around say that I believe that Jesus Christ is an angel, is Michael the
archangel, & other falsehoods & misunderstandings of what I actually
believe.
For example, Dan
12:1 says:
This verse (in context)
makes it clear to me that Michael, who is not Jesus Christ, has a military
role of looking after the saints. Jesus Christ is the one who leads us
to salvation. Michael is an archangel as Jude 9 tells us. And it is evident
that he is under Jesus Christ as Rev 5 implies.
The misunderstanding
that induces some to say that I say Jesus Christ is an angel is probably
from misunderstanding such as the following:
1 Cor 10:1-4,9
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers
were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
The apostle Paul
understood that it was the preincarnate Jesus Christ who lead Israel out
of Egypt into the promised land. Similarly, it is our Saviour, the Son
of God, who leads the spiritual Israel, the Church of God, through
the all its trials and tribulations into the Kingdom of God.
In Acts 7,
Stephen, before the religious leaders of his day, the Sanhedrin Council,
tells them:
:30 And when forty
years had passed, an Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire
in a bush, in the wilderness of Mount Sinai.
Ex 3:2 says:
And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the
midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire,
but the bush was not consumed.
In Ex 14:19
we read: And the Angel of God, who went before the camp of Israel,
moved and went behind them; and the pillar of cloud went from before them
and stood behind them.
Ex 23:23 (also
33:2) For My Angel will go before you and bring you in to the Amorites
and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Canaanites and the Hivites
and the Jebusites; and I will cut them off.
Num 20:16
'When we cried out to the LORD, He heard our voice and sent the Angel
and brought us up out of Egypt; now here we are in Kadesh, a city on the
edge of your border.
What may confuse
some is that both in Heb & Gk the word for angel & messenger is
mal'ak (Heb), & aggelos (Gk) [Pronounced angelos]. The words are readily
interchangeable. A good example of this usage is in Malachi 3:1
So we see that in
Malachi 3:1 both John the Baptist & Jesus Christ are called messenger
[mal'ak in Heb & aggelos in Gk]. Does this then mean that John was
an angel? Does it mean that Christ was an angel like John? So what I am
saying is that in a number of OT references the preincarnate Jesus Christ
was addressed as the Messenger, or Angel [of the LORD of hosts].
This is not erroneous! This does not in any way diminish the roles and
functions of our Redeemer and Head of the Church.
If we recall Jacob's
wrestling with "a Man" [in Gen 32:24ff] who blessed him with the
change of name to Israel, we should also note that Hosea 12:3-4 in referring
to this incident says:
He took his brother
[Esau] by the heel in the womb, and in his strength he struggled with God.
Yes, he struggled with the Angel and prevailed; He wept, and sought favour
from Him. He found Him in Bethel, and there He spoke to us;
Here [in Gen 32],
it is quite evident that the Angel of the LORD is called God [Elohim].
Please note that in Ex 23:20-21 we have God the Father being quoted by
His Messenger-Servant, the one we see as Jesus Christ:
Behold, I send an
Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place
which I have prepared.
Beware of Him and
obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions;
for My name is in Him. Hence the names we see the Messenger of God bearing
are: Lord, God, Lord God, or Elohim, or Yahweh!
Ps 82:6 says
that the children of the Most High are gods [elohim]; and Jesus Christ
in Jn 10:34 upholds this by using the Gk "theoi," i.e., gods.
Ps 82:6
I said, "You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High."
Jn 10:34-36
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are
gods"'? If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and
the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father
sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said,
'I am the Son of God'?
That is, in the resurrection,
the elect are elohim! Elohim also refers to the structure of the Godhead!
Jesus Christ is the forever subordinate Son of God, but is called
"Elohim". The saints in the resurrection are also "Elohim"! God the Father
is an Elohim, but eternally supreme! All the elohim will forever worship
the Father Elohim! Their unity is by the Holy Spirit.
What I have intimated
to people is that the One who created Adam & Eve, who spoke to Adam
& Eve in the Garden, who spoke to Cain, who ate with Abraham as recorded
in Gen 18 with the other 2 angels under His direction, who intervened in
the attempted sacrifice of Isaac in Gen 22, was the preincarnate Jesus
Christ. The incarnation of Jesus Christ is addressed in several places
but is noteworthy in Phlp 2:5-11, which theologians use in their speculations
and call kenotic theology, i.e., speculations about the nature of
the Son of God emptying himself of His heavenly divinity to become
as one of us.
Many scholars recognize
that the early Church accepted that these appearances of the Angel of the
LORD, i.e., the Messenger of the LORD of hosts, was Jesus Christ in a theophany,
i.e., an appearance of the deity, the Son of God.
For example, footnotes
to Gen 16, [esp v.7], where Hagar was comforted & blessed in the
desert 'acknowledge' that it was Christ who spoke to her:
NASB: "Since
the angel of the Lord ceases to appear after the incarnation,
it is often inferred that the angel in the OT, is a preincarnate appearance
of the Second Person of the Trinity." By quoting this, does it mean
that I believe in the Trinity?
Amplified Bible:
"The Angel of the LORD is identified as Christ Himself in Gen 48:16, where
He is called "the redeeming Angel," or "the Angel the Redeemer.""
NIV (Study Bible):
".... Traditional Christian interpretation has held that this "angel" was
a preincarnate manifestation of Christ as God's Messenger-Servant."
On August 2nd I sent,
electronically, a six-page letter to the Council of Elders and the Doctrine
Committee asking about the Church's first statement of beliefs which implies
that God the Father & Jesus Christ are co-equal and co-eternal. I sent
a second letter via our electronic mail system on November 7th, the day
before the start of our National Conference. I finally received the very
first reply to specific questions asked. It was from Peter Nathan, chairman
of the sub-committee handling the topic "The Nature of God". He had invited
me to join the sub-committee on August 13th. I accepted gladly. And I am
delighted that I got a specific three-page reply to questions asked. The
reply is quite challenging and I have not had time as yet to carefully
consider it since receiving it Thursday night. The preparation of this
critically important message has preoccupied my time and efforts.
The really big question
that is worrisome to some and considered as heretical is:
The first statement
of belief in the UCG Constitution 2.1.1 says in part: "We believe in
one God, the Father, eternally existing in the heavens, who is a Spirit,
a personal Being of supreme intelligence, knowledge, love, justice, power
and authority." That first sentence is an amazing statement! I see the
sentence as upholding what I uphold in my view of God the Father as supreme
in knowledge. love, justice, power, authority. So all else is lesser than
God the Father, isn't it? Apparently not to some!
The statement goes
on: "He, through Jesus Christ, is the Creator of the heavens and the earth
and all that is in them. [I fully agree!] He is the source of life and
the One for whom human life exists. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ
of Nazareth, who is the Word and has eternally existed. We believe that
He is the Messiah, the Christ, the divine Son of the living God, conceived
of the Holy Spirit, born in the human flesh of the virgin Mary. " and so
it goes on without any problem. So what is the problem for me? About
half-way through the statement the statement is made: "the Word ... has
eternally existed."
My question goes
like this [quoting my letter to the Council of Elders & Doctrine Committee]:
"The inevitable logical inference from the belief statement is that the
Father and Jesus Christ are co-eternal and hence co-equal. Is that the
intention of the statement? .... I would like to see the real proof for
the assumption that "the Word has eternally existed". I cited the
quotes in Mr HWA's Incredible Human Potential (pp 36-37,65) which
say: "Originally there existed only these two Spirit Personages, self-existent....
Only these two, equal in mind and powers ... In the eternity prior to 'prehistory'
there were these two Supreme Beings.... From eternity the Father and the
Word who became Jesus Christ had co-existed."
Roderick Meredith,
Gerald Flurry, Fred Coulter & others hold this view still. By saying
that the Father and the Word are co-eternal & co-equal we logically
must conclude that there are two equal Gods to equally worship. I maintain
that this is not Scriptural. I have asked for proof to contradict what
I presently believe.
Peter Nathan's response
of last Thursday is the very first that I've received to questions posed.
Now the question
that naturally arises if we say that the Father and the Son are not co-equal
is: how can we have two unequal Gods eternally existent? How did the lesser
God originate? Did He have an origin in prehistory? All the heathen cosmologies
speak of a Supreme God creating another God, the firstborn son of the gods.
Satan, as we should recall, is a counterfeiter! But is there a counterfeit
here?
The question that
caused the turmoil that lead to the convening of the Council of Nicaea
and the subsequent persecutions was: Was the Son of God a Son before His
incarnation? I have been studying this question, have discussed it
with some but have not categorically affirmed that the Son of God was a
creation of the Father prior to the creation of the universe. Hebrews 1
& Colossians 1; Prov 8:22ff are key Scriptures in this regard, as are
Jn 1:18; Rev 3:14; Prov 30:4. My problem is that if I clearly affirm
that Jesus Christ is a creation of God the Father, then I do not have a
clear answer to the sequence of events. I want discussion and study on
this as it has historically been a question of momentous significance.
This is my position on the nature of Jesus Christ. The Son of God is the
creator of the universe, the Saviour & Redeemer, the Foundation Stone
of the Church of God, the One who with power and love serves the Will of
the Father so that He may do what 1Cor 15:24,28 say:
Then comes the end,
when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to
all rule and all authority and power.
Now when all things
are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him
who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
In the original
Feb 1947 Constitution that Mr HWA had to draw up, Article X said ( I have
a photocopy of that document):
"The doctrine of
this Church shall be that of a plain and literal understanding of the Holy
Bible, believing it means exactly what it says; -- of the Bible alone,
and not as interpreted by any other book or person, but it is a point of
basic doctrine in this Church that we understand the Bible to reveal a
divine Creator, the Almighty God, a divine Saviour, the Son of God, Jesus
Christ, who came in the human flesh, proclaimed the Gospel of the coming
world-ruling kingdom of God, which it is obligatory for all Christians
to believe; who died to pay the penalty of our sins in our stead; who was
raised from the dead after three days and three nights in the grave by
God the Father; who ascended to the right hand of the Father in heaven;
who is soon coming again literally and in Person to earth to set up the
Kingdom of God, and as King of kings and Lord of lords, to rule all nations
by this world-ruling Kingdom for one thousand years; we believe in the
Commandments of God and the faith of Jesus Christ our Lord."
What is my position
on the U.S. & B.C. in Prophecy?
Item 2.1.15 of the
UCG Constitution says nothing about the identity of Britain & America.
It is implied though. But please notice what it says:
We believe in God's
enduring righteousness. That righteousness is demonstrated by God's faithfulness
in fulfilling all the promises he made to the father of the faithful, Abraham.
As promised, God multiplied Abraham's lineal descendants so that Abraham
literally became the "father" of many nations. We believe that God, as
promised, materially prospered Abraham's lineal descendants Isaac and Jacob
(whose name he later changed to Israel). We believe that God, through Abraham's
Seed, Jesus Christ, is making salvation available to all humanity regardless
of their physical lineage.
May I give a couple
of the most important misapplications of Scripture. But before I do, may
I comment about the exaggerated approach to the identity to Britain and
America where things were said officially & privately like: "Britain
has won its last war. This Falklands War will be lost to her shame!" and,
"America is sinking further and further in her morass of problems. She
will be taken over soon!" Britain easily won the Falklands war and
has become one of the strongest economies in Europe. America has grown
stronger and stronger in world influence so that the UN, NATO, World Bank,
and the Middle East are effectively in her control. No one challenges her
militarily, or financially. America is at present greater in world power
than ever! Will America allow this power to be lost? Let's watch world
events? Let's watch world events and see what Scripture says about what
is in fact happening?
Do I fully accept
what the 1972 edition of U.S.& B.C. in Prophecy says? No! I want to
see, in the forthcoming exposition on this topic, explanations for such
as the following:
On p 93 of this 239-page
book, one reads:
The captivity was
c722-718 B.C. Most scholars prefer the date closer to 722. However,
of Hezekiah's reign [715 - 686 B.C.], we read in 2Chr 29:1-3;30:1-11:
Hezekiah was twenty-five
years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem twenty-nine
years. His mother's name was Abijah daughter of Zechariah. :2 He
did what was right in the eyes of the LORD, just as his father David had
done. :3 In the first month of the first year of his reign [715 B.C.
WAS A FEW YEARS AFTER THE CAPTIVITY], he opened the doors of the temple
of the LORD and repaired them.
2 Chr 30:1
Hezekiah sent word to all Israel and Judah and also wrote letters to
Ephraim and Manasseh, inviting them to come to the temple of the LORD in
Jerusalem and celebrate the Passover to the LORD, the God of Israel. :2
The king and his officials and the whole assembly in Jerusalem decided
to celebrate the Passover in the second month. :3 They had not been
able to celebrate it at the regular time because not enough priests had
consecrated themselves and the people had not assembled in Jerusalem. :4
The plan seemed right both to the king and to the whole assembly. :5
They decided to send a proclamation throughout Israel, from Beersheba to
Dan, calling the people to come to Jerusalem and celebrate the Passover
to the LORD, the God of Israel. It had not been celebrated in large numbers
according to what was written. :6 At the king's command, couriers
went throughout Israel and Judah with letters from the king and from his
officials, which read: "People of Israel, return to the LORD, the God of
Abraham, Isaac and Israel, that he may return to you who are left, who
have escaped from the hand of the kings of Assyria. :7 Do not be
like your fathers and brothers, who were unfaithful to the LORD, the God
of their fathers, so that he made them an object of horror, as you see.
:8 Do not be stiff-necked, as your fathers were; submit to the LORD.
Come to the sanctuary, which he has consecrated forever. Serve the LORD
your God, so that his fierce anger will turn away from you. :9 If
you return to the LORD, then your brothers and your children will be shown
compassion by their captors and will come back to this land, for the LORD
your God is gracious and compassionate. He will not turn his face from
you if you return to him." :10 The couriers went from town
to town in Ephraim and Manasseh, as far as Zebulun, but the people scorned
and ridiculed them. :11 Nevertheless, some men of Asher, Manasseh
and Zebulun humbled themselves and went to Jerusalem.
It is self-evident
from Scripture that some Israelites, those not of Judah, Levi, Benjamin,
did return to Palestine!
If the dating of
this is not accepted then we have the history of similar events about a
100 years later in Josiah's time.
2 Chr 34:1
Josiah was eight years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem
thirty-one years [c.640 - 609 B.C.]. :9 They went to Hilkiah
the high priest and gave him the money that had been brought into the temple
of God, which the Levites who were the doorkeepers had collected from the
people of Manasseh, Ephraim and the entire remnant of Israel and from all
the people of Judah and Benjamin and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. :10
Then they entrusted it to the men appointed to supervise the work on the
Lord's temple. These men paid the workers who repaired and restored the
temple.
2 Chr 35:16
So at that time the entire service of the LORD was carried out for the
celebration of the Passover and the offering of burnt offerings on the
altar of the LORD, as King Josiah had ordered. :17 The Israelites
who were present celebrated the Passover at that time and observed the
Feast of Unleavened Bread for seven days. :18 The Passover had not
been observed like this in Israel since the days of the prophet Samuel;
and none of the kings of Israel had ever celebrated such a Passover as
did Josiah, with the priests, the Levites and all Judah and Israel who
were there with the people of Jerusalem. :19 This Passover was celebrated
in the eighteenth year of Josiah's reign [622 B.C.].
Do we accept the
Scriptures on this? How do we accommodate these Scriptures with what any
of us might uphold about the matter of the captivity of the 10 tribes?
Who will give a satisfactory explanation to the fact that people from these
tribes who had been taken into captivity were returning?
On pages 120-123
of Ch 8 Mr HWA discusses the Ezekiel 17:11-24 parable supposedly dealing
with the princess [known as Tea-Tephi; p 133]. But this "tender twig"
cut from the highest bough of the cedar of Lebanon, the "dry tree", is
a clear reference to Jesus Christ who was called during His ministry King
of the Jews! Notice Isa 53:2: For He shall grow up before
Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He has no form
or comeliness; and when we see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire
Him.
The book also does
not adequately address the matter of Josiah's grandson, Jehoiachin (Coniah),
who ruled for 3mths 10days in 597 B.C., who was taken into captivity &
eventually released. Through his firstborn son, Shealtiel, Jesus Christ
is descended [see 2 K 24:8-17; 2 Chr 36:9-10; Jer 22:24-30; 24:1; 27:20-22;
52:31-34; 2 K 25:27-30; Matt 1:12 & 1 Chr 3:17 where his 5 sons, all
born in Babylon, are named. There is no solid proof that the daughter of
Zedekiah, the uncle of Jehoiachin, and brother to Jehoiakim, had a divine
right to the throne. These kinds of problems must be objectively addressed.
What do I believe
about this? If my memory serves me correctly I first read Mr HWA's booklet
on the subject in 1965! My understanding of this amazing subject doesn't
disagree with what I read in the booklet: PREDESTINATION . . Does the Bible
Teach It?
Let me quote from
that 1957 pamphlet (pp 13-15) with some personal comments. If I am wrong
on any point then I am very willing to be shown, from Scripture, that some
aspect(s) of my understanding is (are) wrong.
"unto the adoption
of children by Jesus Christ."
Were any predestinated,
then, to be LOST? He says it is not! Then can't we see that "predestination"
has nothing to do with WHETHER we shall be lost or saved -- with our decision
-- with our ultimate fate?
Those predestinated
are the FIRST to trust in Christ -- merely the first preliminary soul-harvest!
"For whom He
did foreknow."
How GREAT is God!
if you are one now called, God "foreknew" you -- Knew you thousands of
years before you were born! and "whom He did foreknow, He also did PREDESTINATE"
-- to be lost? No,
"to be conformed
to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren,
Moreover, whom he did PREDESTINATE, them He also CALLED."
Not will call in
the future -- called, now, in this age.
God knows the end
from the beginning (Isa 46:10);
God's understanding
is infinite, limitless, without bounds (Ps 146:5);
God inhabits eternity
(Isa 57:15), i.e., by His Spirit He is aware of everything throughout all
time & before time, as time envisioned by us, began.
At that time
Michael shall stand up,
The great prince
who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall
be a time of trouble,
Such as never
was since there was a nation,
Even to that
time.
And at that time
your people shall be delivered,
Every one who
is found written in the book (whose names are in the Book of life [Phlp
4:3; Lk 10:20; Rev 3:5]).
:2 all
were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
[The saints are
baptized into Christ]
:3 all
ate the same spiritual food,
[Quail & manna
were spiritual?]
:4 and
all drank the same spiritual drink.
[The miracles of
water provided were spiritual waters?]
For they drank
of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
:9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them
also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents;
:37 This
is that Moses who said to the children of Israel, 'The LORD your God will
raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear.'
[Prophet = Jesus
Christ incarnate; Jn 1:14; "like me" are the last words in the Gk sentence
of v.37 so the "he" at the beginning of v38 refers to Moses.]
:38 This is he
[i.e., Moses] who was in the congregation [church] in the wilderness
with the Angel who spoke to him [i.e., Moses] on Mount Sinai, and
with our fathers, the one who received the living oracles to give to us,
Behold, I
[God the Father is being quoted]
send My messenger
[Matt 11:10 shows us that this is John the Baptist; & the word is aggelos
in Gk; & mal'ak in Heb],
And he will prepare
the way before Me.
And the Lord
[Jesus Christ], whom you seek,
Will suddenly
come to His temple [Christ is to come to His Church],
Even the Messenger
[Heb mal'ak, i.e., Messenger, or Angel]
of the covenant,
In whom you delight.
Behold, He is
coming, says the LORD of hosts. [i.e., God the Father is being quoted
as saying that His Son, the Messenger of God the Father, is coming.]
Does Orest Solyma
believe that Jesus Christ was a created angel before He, as the Son of
God, created the universe?
To another question
now:
I have said nothing
about the identity of nations until I am clear on the matter. I do not
recognize this as vital to salvation. Did the apostles and prophets know
this? There are some significant errors in the use of Scriptures in the
book U.S. & B.C. in Prophecy.
Nowhere besides
1 Chronicles 9:3 and Luke 2:36 are members of other tribes (outside of
Benjamin, Judah, and Levi) mentioned in the Holy Land after the captivity!